Upgrading from handycam to prosumer

[Skydivephil]

I am looking to buy a new camcorder to replace my Sony cx700.

I shoot a lot of nature stuff like bio luminescence, the northern lights etc. It need to be superb in low light.

The cx did a great job but if I spend more what is out there that better?

I still want portability and powered zoom would be nice.

Any ideas?

[Mick2011]

Hi Skydivephil, welcome to the Sony Forums

Improving on the CX700 basically means moving on from the 'consumer' handycam, logically up to larger, professional camcorders.

That said, have you considered going the DSLR route? A lot of professional video is shot this way these days and it would seem to me to suit your work better, particularly for low-light filming. Videos and how-to articles abound on the web; if you need more info just shout

Cheers

Mick

[Skydivephil]

We are on vacation now and after I flooded the housing I've been using my wife's dslr to shoot video. I think I much prefer a dedicated video camera.

I looked online and not seeing anything exciting.

The vg20 doesn't have a powered zoom I would have bought that otherwise.

The other camera that intrigues me is the nx30e. They say it's more professional but I don't see that the censor or  lens are any better than the cx. Am I right?

[firionicable]

You could always choose the camcorder used by professionals if you want to capture all the nature stuff you want. You can't simply be satisfied with the basic handycam you have. That's just it.

[Mick2011]

Skydivephil wrote:
They say it's more professional but I don't see that the censor or  lens are any better than the cx. Am I right?

I'm not really up on the professional cams but you're right in the sense that Sony quite often have consumer and professional versions of the same hardware, with connectivity and firmware being the only major differences. Lenses and chips in particular often span the range and the ones you mention here are the same.

Hence the NX30 will be built around the same hardware as the new CX730. Apart from pro-level support, it will give you more flexibility in the firmware with improved control over gain (which might be useful for your purposes) and flexible timcode, XLR inputs, better audio, which might not...:smileyconfused:

I'd look at the CX730 first, maybe read up on the NX30's improved gain control and decide from there.

Cheers

Mick

[Skydivephil]

I can find the user manuals for either camera so how do I look up the gain controls?

Btw can you explain to me exactly what this is ? I get the idea that this has somehtign to do with letting more light in but not really sure how it differs from changing the exposure.

My main concern is to get more light in the camera for things like the Norhtenr lights or bio luminescence. I dont care at all about sound or time codes.

Ive narrowed it down to:

cx730 ie same old and giving up on going more pro

MC550 seems to have more professional controls , will this let me get ore light in the camera?

NX70 seems to have the same spec as MC550 but i did notice an improvement from going to the CX550 to Cx700, I wonder if the chip changed at all? So Im thingking the NX70 shoudl have similar improvement , am i right?

VG20 but I dodnt seem to have the smooth slow record function which really one of the main reasons to stay with Sony, this function is awesome. Am I right?

Fs100 but I think this is going to be too heavy for my purposes. They sak its 1kg just body, but 2.7 kg with the all the stuff added on. How light can it seriosuly be made though? i dont really want a camera that weights more than 1.5 kg

Or the NX30u , but why spend more money and wait over the NX70? is itmore expensive?

Message was edited by: Skydivephil

Message was edited by: Skydivephil

[Mick2011 · Accepted solution]

Some of the cams you mention I really can't comment on as they're not available yet. Many use the same chip and in that respect, the differences between them will relate only to increased manual configuration, broadcast standards, precision audio and connections for professional accessories.

When you move to interchangeable lenses and super-35mm CMOS chips (FS100 etc) you will certainly improve low-light image quality – this is the main reason I suggested DSLR video – but with that comes more kit, more weight, and no auto-zoom, which you've already said you don't want.

Other than that, nothing in the pro range really leaps out at me as ideally suiting the sort of filming you want to do other than increased control over gain.

To briefly explain: video gain concerns the way the signal from an individual photo-site (pixel) is amplified. It obviously becomes more critical, the lower the levels of light you're recording. Without being able to control video gain you basically allow the camera to 'decide' what that amplification should be. The result of over-done gain is noise, so it's clearly a key element to be able to control.

Actually deciding the amount of gain you need depends on the exposure settings, light levels and filming conditions you happen to be working under. For example, with a lot of black areas in the image, you'll want to decrease gain as noise is more noticeable; even though a more evenly-lit scene might have exactly the same exposure (and noise) you'll notice the noise less and can dial in a little more gain. It can also come down to personal choice: 12dB gain might look unacceptably noisy to some people, to others it might just resemble a pleasant film grain.

For your purposes, the ability to control and select that would seem to me to be the one thing I would buy into with a more professional camera. As you've noticed however, weight, as well as cost, will increase as you move up the range.

I can only suggest you research the subject a little more, perhaps talking with someone in pro video shop who is more knowlegable than me – shouldn't be too hard! – but certainly try to get your hands on this gear before you make any decisions.

Cheers

Mick

[Skydivephil]

Thanks a lot for that.

Heres my thoughts and if anyone else hasa simialr issue Ive done a fair amount of research now so i think this may be useful:

I would like to upgrade from the Sony CX camcorders ( which are superb products by he way)

Bu it seems the upgrade has severla severe drawbacks even within sony products

If i get a cmera witha bigger sensor such as the Vg20 I lose

1) Smooth slow record - I love this feature , its superb slow motion film. Amazingly not available on the Vg20 !

2) Powered Zoom.

3 ) compact size

In order to get slow motion you have to spend thousands of pounds and put up with a lot of exta weight.

Teh Cx weighs about .5kg the next thing up with slow mo might be somehting lke the Fs100 which costs £6,000 and weights 2.7kg.

I noticed as well the Vg20 has a higher mim lux than the CX730.

I dont want to go to DSLR as they dont have powered zoom or tracking focus or BOSS

So Im stick with the CX camera £1000 and buying a DSLR for things like Norhtern Lights for another £1000, still way cheaper and lighter than buying a FS100 and I dont lose the smooth slow and powered zoom as i would do with the VG20.

The only other ocnsideration is the NG30 but i see no price for this, does anyone know? Im happy to spend a few extra hundreds for gain control but not £1500 extra.

Also Ill be in the USA next week should I buy the CX760 there , does it have anything over the CX730 other than internal memory?

Can anyone confirm the CX73o still has the smooth slow? I dont see it on the tech specs

http://www.sony.co.uk/product/cam-high-definition-on-memory-stick/hdr-cx730e#/TechnicalSpecs

Message was edited by: Skydivephil

Message was edited by: Skydivephil

[Ronald_Z]

Hi Skydivephil.

It's probably old news, but yes the 730 also has smooth slow options.

Does someone have experiance with the 740 compared to the 730, as i have a 730, and an other salesman told me the 740 (+300 Euro) has a better low light performance.

I see nothing in the specs, only difference is GPS and internal 32 GB mem.

This is not worth the extra money, but if it is realy better, i can swap my 730.

Anyone ?

[Mick2011]

Hi Ronald, welcome to the Sony Forums

There's no difference in low-light performance between those two; your observation is correct

Cheers

Mick