Sony AX33 - How do I make a substantial complaint..?

[tatey39]

Hi,

On 4th June 2018, we purchased a new Sony Ax33 4k video camera; the reason was to use it as a HD unit for videoing my young son’s band during their performances. As you may expect, these events are one-off and cannot be repeated, so we tried to buy the best, and most recommended camera available.

We eventually settled on the SONY HANDYCAM FDR AX33 4K Camcorder, due to the excellent footage being highlighted online and via the numerous reviews available via the same.

In use, the footage and photographic stills were terrible (except in daylight), we asked for advice from the shop and that actually made no difference to the quality.  Eventually, the camera was sent back to the shop (£50 postage & insurance..!!) for checking and returned with no apparent fault (albeit, they hadn't contacted Sony about it). Still under warranty, the shop only offered us half the price we paid in exchange for an AX53 (which we had already refused due to apparent software issues at the time). Having only had roughly 10% of the photographic stills useable and most footage grainy and obscure, we want to send footage etc. to a complaints dept. but cannot find anything online.

Does anyone have a contact before we have to start making this a bit more public, just to evoke a response?

Thanks.

[IamNic]

Hello @tatey39,

from your explanation it sounds more like the camera wasn't set up correctly as if it was the fault of the two devices you used.

Do you have any footage/photos as example which show why the cameras didn't meet your expectations.

- Nic

[tatey39]

 Nic,

Thanks for your reply.

This is the general quality of still we have - whether inside or out (my son).

And videos are like this:

Inside:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5ZzX_jXqBo

Outside:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xA4lNLhKNM

Considering it's allegedly a 4K camera - even through our 4K TV - the footage is terrible (and we have tried every option put to us).

Thanks.

[IamNic]

Hi @tatey39,

first off - your kid is rocking 🤘

The first thing I notice is, that the still-frames you linked are both from "zoomed in" parts of the video.

When zooming in - because of how zoom lenses work - the F-value gets higher and therefore the "hole" (IRIS) the light passes trough gets smaller. So the camera has to boost the sensor-readout digitally to retain the same exposure as when completely zoomed out. The further you zoom in, the worse the grain gets.

Secondly - the outside video was uploaded in 720i (interlaced) as I can clearly see the artifacts. Can you upload the 4K file somehow? Because in its current state the video doesn't really give any proper representation of the cameras quality.

The inside video was uploaded in 1080p as well, this time there is no corruption due to the video bein handled "interlaced" somewhere in the workflow before uploading. To me it does as good as a YouTube video of a dimmly lit indoor environment looks like.

Do you record in 4K 60Mbit/s or 4K 100Mbit/s?

I think the issue here is a mix of you having too high expectations towards the camera mixed with unfavourable settings being used (including zooming in and reducing the light which reaches the sensor) and challenging shooting conditions.

- Nic

[tatey39]

Hi Nic....

Thank you so much for your comments regarding the band..!!

We took some film last night in a local venue (small place) and it was set on XAVC HD S 50p, with no zoom.

Not sure what to expect, but I did think it would have more clarity, especially as the lighting wasn't that low and we were reasonably close to the band.

Here is the link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_uKvrbicOI&feature=youtu.be

Obviously, we want to improve on the quality of the footage, so any tips would be welcome, as they have another 'gig' tonight.

Thanks for all your help.

Pete

[tatey39]

Just in clarification, we weren't zoomed in and this footage is a direct upload from the memory card - so hasn't been changed in any way - other than the upload to YouTube (which some seem able to do with ultra HD from the AX33).

Thanks.

[IamNic]

Hello @tatey39,

I would be happy to help. 🙂

Here are some basics for video shooting:

1. If what you are filming is dimmly lit (like non-televised indoor stage performances usually are), make sure to lower the framerate as far as possible. The camera can't expose longer per video frame than the video frame is read out from the sensor. That means if you film in 50p (50 frames per second) the longest time per video frame the camera can "capture" light is 1/50th of a second.

If you lower the framerate to 25fps, the camera can (if you set it up correctly otherwise) captures twice as much light per video frame as it can in the 50fps mode, giving you a much better result.

2. While shooting 4K with a 4K-Camcorder is desirable, lowering the resolution to 1080p gives the camera 4 "sensor pixels" per logial video pixel to read out (and therefore gather) data from. This in turn improves the quality and lowers the digital grain/artifacts.

3. I know the FDR AX33 has limited manual features but for a camcorder where you can manually control it, open the IRIS up as far as possible to allow as much light as possible to reach the sensor. Also try to refrain from zooming if possible.

4. Limit the auto-gain from going over a value after which you personally are annoyed by the amount of grain - for that you can do some test-shots and analyse them BEFORE you shoot another performance of your son, to then have the settings ready when it is time to shoot the performance. If your camera has this feature it is called something like "Auto ACG limit" (or something similar, sorry, I don't own the camcorder).

5. Maybe ask the person controlling the light to not turn down the lights so far, to help you with shooting the video.

6. Don't compare the video you are getting out of your camera to something you see on TV. As mentioned above televised stage performances pack lots of light even though it might not look that way - but the band-members you should see get very well lit nevertheless. In fact they get lit so well, that they sweat because of the heat those lights emit.

- Nic

[ioagount]

Hi Nic.

Hmm... this advice is very helpful...

1st question:

Could you explain something about the first part of your answer (frame rates)?

On FDR-AX33, I can adjust the frame rate as follows: 

1. Format: XAVC SHD:

1. 50 Frames at 50Mbps bitrate
2. 25 Frames at 50Mbps bitrate

Which of the above gives me better sharpness in low light conditions, as mentioned in this thread? I have the same bitrate, does the fps make the difference?

2. Format: AVCHD:

1. 50 Frames at 28Mbps bitrate
2. 25 Frames at 24Mbps bitrate

Which of the above gives me better sharpness in low light conditions? I have different bitrates.

<<BITRATE / FRAMES: how do they relate to each other?>>

Is the following calculation method correct?

1. For the first case I have 28Mbps/50Frames= 0.56 Mbps/Frame
2. For the second case I have 24Mbps/25Frames= 0.96 Mbps/Frame

If I compare the XAVC SHD vs AVCHD using the above equation, I take more Mbps per frame and therefore XAVC SHD is the winner?

2st question:

What is the best settings for FDR-AX33 in low light conditions (tatey39 example)?

1. Low frames (e.g. 25 FPS)

2. I can adjust IRIS or SHUTTER SPEED at a time. Which of the two and what value to choose?

3. What else?

Maybe there is a golden rule...